Recorded: February 7, 2025 | Hosts: Sam Stone and Chuck Warren
Episode Introduction
Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen returns to Breaking Battlegrounds for his fourth appearance, this time focused on fentanyl, which he calls Montana’s top public safety threat. He talks with Sam Stone and Chuck Warren about pressure on both the northern and southern borders, how fentanyl reaches rural Montana, and his campaign against banks that he says are debanking conservatives.
Pollster Patrick Ruffini of Echelon Insights follows with the argument from his book Party of the People, then reviews polling on Elon Musk’s favorability and the candidates who outperformed in 2024. Broadcaster Martin Di Caro, host of History As It Happens, asks whether the global shift between democracy and authoritarianism is really new.
The episode closes with Kiley’s Corner, which covers a viral half-court shot at UMass and the criminal cases tied to the Zizians.
Quick Answer
On Breaking Battlegrounds Podcast 231, recorded February 8, 2025, Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen called fentanyl Montana’s top public safety threat and discussed security on both U.S. borders and his opposition to banks debanking conservatives. Pollster Patrick Ruffini covered populism and 2024 polling, and Martin Di Caro examined democracy, authoritarianism, and public distrust.
Episode Overview
Knudsen opens the episode by tying the national border debate to conditions in Montana. He covers both the U.S.-Mexico border and the less-discussed U.S.-Canada border, explains why he considers fentanyl the state’s greatest public safety threat, and describes his efforts against financial institutions that he says have cut off conservative customers.
Ruffini then brings the conversation to electoral data. Drawing on Party of the People, he explains how the populist coalition behind the Republican Party has changed. He also discusses then-current polling on Elon Musk and which 2024 candidates beat expectations.
Di Caro, whose podcast looks at current events through history, considers whether the world is repeating past patterns. His segment examines anti-establishment sentiment and how government failures have eroded public trust.
Kiley’s Corner covers two stories that were in the news that week: a UMass student’s disputed $10,000 half-court shot and the multistate criminal cases linked to the Zizians.
About the Guests
Austin Knudsen
Knudsen is Montana’s attorney general. He was first elected in 2020 and served two terms as Speaker of the Montana House before that. He was also elected Roosevelt County Attorney and spent nearly a decade in private practice. He earned his undergraduate degree at Montana State University-Bozeman and his law degree at the University of Montana. He won a second term as attorney general in November 2024.
This is his fourth Breaking Battlegrounds appearance. He previously joined the show for Podcast 100 on fentanyl and energy costs, Podcast 163 with Ambassador Carla Sands, and Podcast 206 on his lawsuits against the Biden administration.
Patrick Ruffini
Ruffini is a pollster and political analyst and a co-founder of Echelon Insights, a public opinion research firm. He is the author of Party of the People, which examines the changing populist coalition in American politics. He posts on X as @PatrickRuffini.
Martin Di Caro
Di Caro is an award-winning broadcaster and the host of History As It Happens, a podcast that examines current events through a historical lens. He posts on X as @MartinDiCaro.
Key Topics Discussed
- Security on both the U.S.-Canada and U.S.-Mexico borders
- Fentanyl as Montana’s top public safety threat
- Debanking and Knudsen’s pushback against banks
- Party of the People and the populist realignment
- Elon Musk’s favorability and 2024 election overperformers
- Democracy, authoritarianism, and anti-establishment sentiment
- How government failures have fueled public distrust
- The UMass half-court shot dispute and the Zizian criminal cases
Austin Knudsen on Fentanyl and Montana’s Two Borders
Knudsen has described fentanyl as Montana’s top public safety threat for years, and this interview continues that theme. The official numbers support the trend he describes. The Montana DOJ reported that fentanyl seizures rose 20,000 percent from 2019. It also reports a 1,900 percent increase in fentanyl-involved deaths from 2017 to 2023, while noting that the State Crime Lab count includes only deaths confirmed through autopsy.
The northern border is the less familiar part of his argument. Montana shares a long border with Canada, and Knudsen explains why he believes it deserves attention alongside the southern border.
The situation has continued to change since the episode aired. In 2026, Knudsen’s office reported that fentanyl seizures in the first quarter kept declining while cocaine and methamphetamine seizures rose.
Knudsen on Debanking Conservatives
Debanking means a financial institution closing or refusing accounts in ways critics say are based on a customer’s politics or industry. Knudsen explains his concerns and the steps he has taken as attorney general.
Patrick Ruffini on Populism and the 2024 Overperformers
Ruffini’s segment draws on Party of the People and his polling work at Echelon Insights. He explains how the populist coalition behind the Republican Party has changed and what that means for future elections.
He also reviews polling that was current in February 2025, including Elon Musk’s favorability during the early DOGE period, and identifies the 2024 candidates who ran ahead of expectations.
Martin Di Caro on Democracy, Authoritarianism and Public Distrust
Di Caro brings a historian’s skepticism to claims that the world faces an unprecedented moment. He examines the balance between democratic and authoritarian systems, the anti-establishment mood in many countries, and whether history actually repeats.
His central point concerns trust: when governments fail at basic tasks, voters lose confidence in institutions and become more open to outsiders.
Kiley’s Corner: The UMass Half-Court Shot and the Zizian Cases
The half-court shot. UMass senior Noah Lee made a layup, free throw, three-pointer, and half-court shot during a halftime promotion at a women’s basketball game, but the promotion company turned down the $10,000 claim, saying his foot was on the line. Video of the shot spread widely, and UMass athletic director Ryan Bamford said the school would pay Lee the $10,000 regardless of what the promotion company did.
The Zizians. The group has been linked to the death of U.S. Border Patrol Agent David Maland near the Canadian border and five other killings in three states. Maland, 44, was killed on January 20, 2025, in a shootout after a traffic stop in Coventry, Vermont, about 20 miles from the Canadian border. Curtis Lind, a landlord in Vallejo, California, was stabbed to death after surviving an earlier attack by members of the group, and he had been expected to testify against them.
Key Takeaways From the Conversation
- Knudsen argues that border security matters to interior states like Montana, and that the northern border needs attention as well as the southern one.
- Montana’s official data shows large increases in fentanyl deaths and seizures over the past decade, although seizures were reported to be declining in 2026.
- Ruffini’s polling work shows a realigned electorate that standard party labels do not fully capture.
- Di Caro connects anti-establishment politics to specific government failures rather than treating it as a passing trend.
Listen to the Episode
Listen with the player on this page, on the Breaking Battlegrounds Substack, or search “Breaking Battlegrounds” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
Related Breaking Battlegrounds Episodes
Knudsen’s appearances can be read as a timeline of Montana’s fentanyl fight. In Podcast 100, recorded in September 2022, he first described fentanyl as a statewide crisis. He returned for Podcast 163 in November 2023 and Podcast 206 in August 2024.
For more on the border, the following week’s Podcast 232 with Sean Spicer and former immigration judge Art Arthur covers deportation policy, and Podcast 226 with Todd Bensman covers national security risks at the southern border.
Frequently Asked Questions
What did Austin Knudsen discuss on Breaking Battlegrounds?
In Podcast 231, recorded February 8, 2025, Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen discussed fentanyl, which he calls the state’s top public safety threat. He also covered security on the U.S.-Canada and U.S.-Mexico borders and his opposition to banks that he says debank conservatives.
How much have fentanyl deaths increased in Montana?
According to the Montana Department of Justice, the State Crime Lab preliminarily recorded 80 fentanyl-involved overdose deaths in 2023, a 1,900 percent increase from four in 2017. The DOJ says this undercounts the statewide total because the lab only verifies deaths that involve an autopsy.
How many times has Austin Knudsen been on Breaking Battlegrounds?
Podcast 231 is at least his fourth appearance. He previously appeared on Podcast 100 in September 2022, Podcast 163 in November 2023, and Podcast 206 in August 2024, covering fentanyl, energy costs, constitutional issues, and his lawsuits against the Biden administration.
Who is Patrick Ruffini?
Patrick Ruffini is a pollster, political analyst, and co-founder of the public opinion firm Echelon Insights. He wrote Party of the People, which looks at the changing populist coalition in American politics. On this episode, he discussed populism, Elon Musk’s favorability, and 2024 election overperformers.
Did the UMass student get his $10,000?
Yes. The promotion company initially denied Noah Lee’s claim, saying his foot was on the half-court line, and UMass Athletics then said it would award him the $10,000 along with additional athletics benefits.
